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Author Topic: Supercooling SMP Systems  (Read 2210 times)

relayPoint

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Supercooling SMP Systems
« on: August 06, 2002, 02:24:00 AM »

Well, I've been asked to design an OCable SMP system. I've got the components picked out already, but the cooling is a major problem. It's dual Athlon XP. I looked at aircooling, but I don't think it's going to do the job.

So, the poll. I want this thing so cold it'll do +400MHz per CPU minimum. Case isn't picked out, no big deal that. The big problem I see is this.

Aircooling isn't robust enough. Water alone would probably give +200MHz if you use 2 pumps, and seperate the CPUs completely to prevent heat passthrough. (That's smart, let's cool CPU0 and cook CPU1! (/sarcasm)) 226W Peltiers will DEFINITELY do the job.. but that means a 460W PSU. ie; A SECOND one. Just for the Peltiers!

There's gotta be a better way. Help!

(EDIT) Third choice should read "Liquid with Peltier." :P
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pewterpez

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Supercooling SMP Systems
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2002, 11:32:00 AM »

lol, at first I thought you said an ORACLE smp system....like for databases and then you talked about ocin' in, I'm like: WTF??!?!?!


anyway, get yourself a hugeass case, cuz if you get dual pelts, you'll need at least a 500 or so JUST FOR THE PELTS (226 X 2 is roughly 450...but you wanna go 450watts continuously...hence the 500watt psu :P) And then you'll need another psu for teh hardware, so you'll need either some ghetto moddin, or a full tower that'll take in two psu's....

also: make sure you get athlon MP, they're the only ones that'll for sure run smp outta the box, with the xp's you gotta mod them...which I don't know how comfortable you are with modding your proc..
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relayPoint

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Supercooling SMP Systems
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2002, 07:53:00 PM »

I ain't modding nothing but the case if this guy does this. He thinks he can screw up the CPUs right, I won't do it, and he knows it. If I was doing it, it'd be a Thunder K7 MPX, no OCing, just straight MP2000's. ;)  Let him botch up $300 CPUs!
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winterstick

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Supercooling SMP Systems
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2002, 03:45:00 AM »

Quote

On 2002-08-06 12:32, pewterpez wrote:
lol, at first I thought you said an ORACLE smp system....like for databases and then you talked about ocin' in, I'm like: WTF??!?!?!


anyway, get yourself a hugeass case, cuz if you get dual pelts, you'll need at least a 500 or so JUST FOR THE PELTS (226 X 2 is roughly 450...but you wanna go 450watts continuously...hence the 500watt psu :P) And then you'll need another psu for teh hardware, so you'll need either some ghetto moddin, or a full tower that'll take in two psu's....

also: make sure you get athlon MP, they're the only ones that'll for sure run smp outta the box, with the xp's you gotta mod them...which I don't know how comfortable you are with modding your proc..



you need to look at how many amps the power supply can make @ 12 volts, the 500 watt is for 3.3, 5, and 12 volt combined.

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relayPoint

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Supercooling SMP Systems
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2002, 01:10:00 PM »

Well, I did some sketching and such this morning before I bothered to turn on the PC, and here's what I've come up with.

The Meanwell unit everyone seems to love cranks out good amperage, good wattage. 300W at a peak 25A. The Peltier is 226W. (Duh.) ;)

An AMD Athlon XP 2200+ has a maximum thermal power of 67.9W. (http://www.amdzone.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=1124&page=2 - reference.) So to hit roughly half of room temperature (say, 70F for room temp), you'll need to dissipate about 190-200W.

What I'm thinking about is in-line resistors, to cut the Peltier's feed down to something more managable. Specifically 195W. (I like middle numbers.) That still leaves me with a power requirement of 390W and roughly 38-40A. But more managable than 500W and 40A+. So, of course, one could easily use two of the Meanwell S230's. Which is what I'm thinking. Two of them, mounted in drive bays, with 3x 40mm exhausting the ambient from them. 50mm if I can find a way to make them fit. Maybe 2x 80mm. (A little help here?) So call the Peltiers solved.

But then comes the next set of problems. Dual CPU setup. I need to setup the system in some way so that BOTH CPUs are at the beginning of the circuit. Now, I think I may have an ingenious way of doing this, but not being an expert in watercooling, I want some second opinions here. Cheap ASCII diagram.

     /----CPU0----
->--<              >-->-
     ----CPU1----/

Basically, use larger diameter tubing, and crank up the flowrate. Split before the CPUs with a Y-splitter, and rejoin after leaving the CPUs. So, I've drawn a cheapy diagram.

http://error404.nls.net/~rpoint/watersystem.jpg">

What do you guys think?
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pewterpez

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Supercooling SMP Systems
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2002, 01:36:00 PM »

hrm...

first ws - I know that -- but for some reason failed to mention it...

relay - it might work, but you'll need one f*cking huge pump that's powerful enough to push past all that back pressure...cuz with two wb's, two rad's and two mini-blocks, you'll have immense back pressure....

also, since you're halving the flow through the cpu's, make SURE you've got the same blocks on the cpu's else the least resistant (less back pressure) of a cpu will get more cooling than the more resistant....water goes along the path of least resistance...

that SAID...you'll need an even STRONGER pump cuz you halved the cpu flow....


it might work, but I'm still leary over the idea of splitting the tubing..
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relayPoint

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Supercooling SMP Systems
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2002, 05:40:00 PM »

Well, the basic idea is to keep the CPUs in seperate 'loops' to keep them from bleeding to eachother severely. If you have one before the other in your flow, then it's just going to pass on heat, and reduce or eliminate the effectiveness of the other waterblock.

The other option I'm considering at this point is this:

Pump0-->CPU0-->GPU-->Radiator0
Pump1-->CPU1-->MPX-->Radiator1

The problem there that stacking the radiators will make them less effective. The other option is:

Pump0-->CPU0-->Radiator0-->CPU1-->Radiator1
Pump1-->GPU--Radiator1-->MPX-->Radiator0

This would be done by using larger radiator inlets and outlets, and doing a reverse Y on both ends. (Feeds combine, then split again.) Problem being, there goes stacking effectiveness again. I don't want to have more than half the case being radiator surface. :/  Comments?
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relayPoint

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Supercooling SMP Systems
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2002, 03:14:00 PM »

Bumpage. New idea.

Pump0-->CPU0-->MPX-->Radiator-->Resevoir
Pump1-->CPU1-->GPU-->Radiator-->Resevoir

Shared resevoir and radiator. Sound better?
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shizno

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Supercooling SMP Systems
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2002, 07:49:00 PM »

two pumps i think....that go into a "tub" res. that way you wont have to split and shorten the flow speed and such.  pumps arent that expensive
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relayPoint

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Supercooling SMP Systems
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2002, 09:06:00 PM »

*points up* Pump0, Pump1. I've given up on single pump entirely. I'm figuring two submersibles, sharing a resevoir and radiator.
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